An interview with Tae Won Yu

This interview is from about 18 months or so ago and was due to appear in issue 2 of my print 'zine a fog of ideas... that has still yet to appear all this time later... I'm a little worried that it ever will (print costs, even photocopying costs seem way out of what I can afford right now and, truth be told, the last 'zine benefited from me being able to print and assemble the thing- on work's equipment, using work's paper- on a couple of slow summer days in the particular job I was in back then, I don't have that 'luxury' now)

I wanted to interview Tae because his band Kicking Giant meant a great deal to me and still do and I also love the design work he did for K Records and I think more people should be aware of him and kind of fan worship him like I do

Kicking Giant were not always easy listening but there was an incendiary pop sensibility at the heart of what they did. They could be alternately and sometimes all at once: abrasive, breathtaking, heartbreaking, defiant and staggeringly beautiful

Apologies to Tae that it's taken so long for this interview to find it's way out into the world and that's not in a print 'zine like I wanted it to be... so here's the interview:

I wanted to write about Tae Won Yu… the band KICKING GIANT that Tae formed with RACHEL CARNS were a big deal to me and still are and I love the design work he did for K Records, Tae is somebody I think people should know about, so I got in contact with him and very graciously he took time to respond to my gushing questions and this is the interview from that…

fogofideas:  The first question is how KICKING GIANT got together? Had you been in bands beforehand and may I ask for some 'flavour' of what New York was like at that time?

Tae:  I was a late starter, I was already in college, attending the Cooper Union in New York, 1988, I had friends at NYU who were more musically astute than I. They turned me on to lots of bands, in particular the K RECORDS roster, I remember the GO TEAM singles club was a big hit among us and SOME VELVET SIDEWALK and MECCA NORMAL, DANIEL JOHNSTON and PUSSY GALORE, UNREST, HALF JAPANESE, also I was living in the East Village and going out to shows almost every night, so it was a natural progression from audience to performer.

There was a great scene of music nerds, bands, fanzines and shows and I responded to all this by trying to figure out a way to make my own. I bought a Tascam-1: 4-track cassette machine from a heavy metal kid in the Chelsea projects and I started trying to making my own recordings. I remember that seeing SONIC YOUTH at the old Knitting Factory playing an early Daydream Nation show was a huge influence, especially the no holds barred way of playing guitar and sculpting noise I found completely exhilarating.

At this point I had made a cassette album called "January" and I would give them away to bands and friends, through that I met CALVIN from K and MARK ROBINSON from TEENBEAT, by then I had met RACHEL CARNS who was a freshman at Cooper Union and somehow we invented ourselves as our own band and I think the wonderful part of this is that we embraced our own limitations and never thought that we couldn't just get together and be a real band—instantly.  I think both Rachel and I had a deep spiritual side to us that gave us incentive to be moved by something other than chops or professionalism and perhaps because both of us grew up in somewhat repressive family atmospheres (her as a daughter of a Baptist minister and I as a son of Korean immigrants) we were ready to be released and fully appreciate this opportunity to express parts of us that had been kept dormant.

I remember also that we were true believers in the idea that anyone can make art and to cultivate an individual style is far more worthwhile than ever trying to sound like someone else so that gave us a lot of freedom to be this ramshackle two piece punk band with a cobbled together stand up drum kit and cheap guitars, also we were able to practice in my apartment on 10th st and 2nd avenue, it was still a iffy neighbourhood then and no one ever complained.

fogofideas: You began releasing cassettes starting with 'January' and then 'Boyfriend Girlfriend' and 'Secret Teenage Summer' followed- there was a split cd thing too, I recall, with SLEEPYHEAD and WALLDRUG (I used to have it and somebody borrowed it... inevitable loss of cd), how did that come about?

Tae:  The CD was a compilation called "Chinny Chin Chin: 4 NY Bands" organized by Mike McGonigal the creator of the fanzine, CHEMICAL IMBALANCE. McGonigal now edits a journal/zine called YETI in Portland—which is also excellent. He was in our circle of friends, very well connected and incredibly knowledgeable about such a wide range of obscure bands and artists, plus he was a master mix-tape maker so it was a natural progression to put out an official release and to help out his friends. Even though the CD was barely distributed outside of our immediate acquaintances we felt fortunate to be given the opportunity to record in a studio and be on a real CD...this was way before you could even dream about burning your own CDs, (I think it came out in 1991) and in that spirit I extended a hand to my friend LIZ PHAIR who was depressed and killing time at her parent's house writing songs that would become "Exile in Guyville"—so we arranged to have her call me and sing "White Babies" into my answering machine so she became a sound verite track amidst our section of the comp, not that this had any impact on her eventual rise to fame.
I remember this period of our band as being really rickety but joyous—running on fumes, borrowed gear, mostly bright eyed and innocent, we did not have very good songs but we played anywhere to anybody or nobody, people who got it were few but we were mostly psyched just to be in a band. 

fogofideas:  … and then the 'Halo' cd... you were still based in New York at this point? Kicking Giant had been this band I'd heard a lot about, I remember finding the split compilation first (but it wasn't enough) and then going into Rough Trade over here and finding the 'Halo' cd and being utterly elated... what led Kicking Giant to Olympia? It's almost this mythic place to somebody like me in the UK, it seemed a natural fit for Kicking Giant to be there... I wonder if you can give a 'flavour' of Olympia as it was when you moved there- was this running parallel with the emerging 'riot grrrl' movement?

Tae: "Halo" came about after we had moved to Olympia, but it was a compilation of tracks recorded pre-Olympia (in NY) as well as new material we made up after our move. My first real contact with Olympia was when I attended a party/show at a basement yoga studio in the East Village (organized by Mike McGonigal) in 1989 (?), Calvin was touring with the GO TEAM along with MECCA NORMAL and SOME VELVET SIDEWALK, also on the bill was GALAXIE 500 (!) and I felt a resonance with all these bands and their approach to music. I remember that they didn't have a mic stand so there was a mic taped to a lamp, which I found hilarious and charming and the music was wonderful, crashing pop—utterly open and to see such sincere art in the middle of a jaded NY scene—literally underground, opened my eyes and I wanted to keep this feeling forever. I gave Calvin a copy of "January" that night and we stayed in touch. Meanwhile, my friends SLEEPYHEAD had played a show with NATION OF ULYSSES  and we became aware of all the bands doing their thing in D.C. at the same time—another connector at this time was a teen magazine called "SASSY" —they wrote about zines including "GIRL GERMS" which was Allison and Molly's project that summer as well as presenting IAN SVENONIOUS the dubious distinction of being the "Sassiest Boy In America"—I think I wrote to Allison because of the zine article and soon after, BRATMOBILE came up to NY to play, we made a poster that read "Riot Girl (sic) Scene"—probably the first appearance of said moniker, in NY at least.

 
All this to say that we found ourselves amongst like minded friends, which lead to Kicking Giant being invited out to Olympia to play at the INTERNATIONAL POP UNDERGROUND CONVENTION in August 1991.

Being in Olympia that summer was magical, if you've ever been in the American Northwest during the summer—it is Eden, perfect weather, there's blackberries growing everywhere and that summer, the streets of the small town was swarming with kids, our hosts who had apartments downtown kept their doors open and we would visit, drink coffee get our minds blown, seeing bands like THE MUMMIES, MELVINS, HEAVENS TO BETSY, UNWOUND,  BEAT HAPPENING and see JAD FAIR and STEPHEN PASTEL walking down the street.

But more than any of this, what got to me most was the kids at the shows. Before this trip, we had played mostly in NY and college towns in the East Coast and the crowds were lame, no one danced or mustered the courage to show much emotion or any action, they were petrified of breaking rank and enjoying themselves in the crowd, but out there, the kids went bananas and they were for real. So between being seduced by the weather and inspired by the kids, I moved to Olympia the following year, and Rachel came soon after that.

Olympia during those heady years was great for me, I had never experienced much outside of NY where anonymity reigned, and then to become part of a small community of artists making work, taking pride in its regional identity, connecting to others working in similar veins all over the world, it was what I had only imagined in my dreams. My favorite aspect of my time there was the way events could spontaneously occur so organically, bands could play shows after a few practises, shows could happen in living rooms, alleys, basements, abandoned banks, fanzines created over a quiet weekend, all we needed to do was spread the word. In NY, it's nearly impossible to arrange things without monumental effort in scheduling, but here all we had was time and willingness to participate. As a transplant, I'm sure I saw the town much more romantically than it's native inhabitants but still, I often found myself sincerely having the best time of my life, completely amazed by what I was seeing in front of me, some lovely memories like MECCA NORMAL playing a show in NIKKI MCCLURE's living room the morning after their late night show in town, A New Year's Eve party with GENE DEFCON—dancing till the cops broke it up, many a hootenannies at LOIS's with revolving coterie of guests, pancake party for CODEINE at the Martin Apt. Kicking Giant Christmas Party in the Martin Apt. laundry room, karaoke with ELLIOT SMITH singing "Leaving On A Jet Plane" at the ABC House, and not to mention all the thrift store trips, dance parties and dinners with friends because there was nothing else to do.

  
fogofideas: It strikes me that there was a real intensity of purpose about Kicking Giant, about what you and Rachel were trying to achieve- is that a correct assessment?

Tae: Well, it's not as if ever had an agenda or goal, I think that we found our performance style naturally and we were comfortable with that. I can say that I've always felt natural taking chances on stage, improvising and playing with structure of our songs. Both Rachel and I were pretty free and chance oriented and we weren't linear thinkers, we rarely played our songs straight the same way twice—our method was more conversational and open ended and oriented towards discovering another path, allowing whatever it is beneath our conscious layer to flow and crash or harmonize. If we had a philosophy, it might be described as embracing the freedom to fail, and playing with Rachel was lot of fun, she is a genius and we fed off of each other's energy. Rachel was more daring and willing to go to weirder places, I probably had a larger repertoire of pop conventions and was more controlling so I think the resulting tension was what made it musically interesting.

When I first started going to shows I was most affected by bands like THE BOREDOMS, BUTTHOLE SURFERS and SONIC YOUTH, who really brought the intensity on stage. The shows functioned less as a programmed recital and more as a liberation demonstration, freeing the noise and not worrying about where it will go—I don't think they knew, or cared, I certainly felt like I was seeing a once in a lifetime experience at every show.

 
I want to ask about the graphic design and illustration work you did for K, how that came about and so on- you seemed to be the in-house designer for a number of years- that may be something that people don't appreciate: that K is a working creative art space and not just a recording studio or rehearsal space... am I right in saying you came up with the 'dub narcotic' typeface? However you want to answer this, I love that work you did, I love those sleeves as much as I love the music- which is lots

Tae: I can't quite remember how it started but I found myself working on graphics at K almost immediately after moving there. The original K offices then were a suite of rooms above "The Chinatown" (a Chinese restaurant, obviously). The rooms were pretty small and crowded, but we did have a so called graphics room with a home made light table, a silkscreen table (too tall for me—I had to use a stool) and a small corner where Calvin had set up a tape dubbing station, the source tapes were usually 1/4" reels inputting into 6 tape decks and you just spent the days turning them over every 15 minutes, that's how all our early Kicking Giant cassettes were made. I can't imagine how many accumulated years I spent doing this.

The first graphics I made for K were for TIGER TRAP’s "Sour Grass" EP and LOIS' "Strumpet" LP. Prior to this I didn't know anything about putting together make-readies for printers so I made a lot of mistakes and learned as I went along, and this was before computers, in fact we were putting together graphics with xeroxes, rubylith and glue sticks up until the "SELECTOR DUB NARCOTIC" compilation in 1997! I had no training in the graphic arts, except for being a fan of the old Neville Brody era Face magazines, Fabien Baron designed Interview and Harper's Bazaar magazines which I collected, but I was always into collage and cut and paste, so I just kept doing that and figured out a way to get it printed. One thing I would do is just take type from magazines and xerox  them, cut and arrange them, keep xeroxing and I would accumulate boxes of paper which became my tools of trade. All my work was first made by hand and xeroxed, later, scanned and arranged into a layout, nothing's changed except now I make illustrations that "look" as if they were printed, copied and distressed.

At some point I became good friends with PAT CASTALDO (he runs BuyOlympia.com now), who is another unsung hero of Olympia, he  was one of the few technologically advanced people in Olympia at that time.

You have to realize that some of us were pretty late in embracing technology, sometimes to the point of being a luddite and holding on to the olden-days ways a bit too long. I remember talking to Calvin in 1999 about getting a computer and he was incredulous (or sarcastic—it's hard to tell) "what for?" was his response. But Pat was instrumental in bringing a number of us into "the future", as he likes to say and I am thankful. He worked at the Evergreen College full time and after work I'd take up his remaining waking hours working with him on a 1996 Power Mac, which amounted to watching him scan all my hand made graphic elements, then telling him to "move it there...no, too far!!" in Pagemaker, all night long, a lot beer was consumed during this period. And Pat did not have to do any of this, and he even bought the beer! He was paid little or nothing, but there was a generosity of spirit in Olympia and he embodied it, and I guess he sensed that we would be pretty lost without a helping hand, more than we realized at the time, so "DESIGNED BY TAE WON YU/BUILT BY PAT CASTALDO" describes our partnership and my own computer training I received.

I loved and appreciated the opportunity to work at K, and I feel like I added a facet to the aesthetics there but the real visionary was always Calvin. I don't think people realize but his tastes and sense of style extends well beyond music and he has a natural way of making things that seem so confident and fully formed. For example, the iconic K in a shield logo can be scrawled by just about anyone but the original that Calvin made just looks perfect, and to me—so beautiful and also his use of local printers and resources to make his projects was also an eye opener.

The original K newsletters were printed on yellow newsprint by a printer in a small town that printed the local paper, and we just extended that relationship to make posters for our bands because they use a web press for printing newspapers, we could get posters that were cost effective and huge! Our Kicking Giant poster for Alien i.D. is one of my favorites using that process.

Another factor that contributed to the style at K was the local presence of Boeing, the airplane manufacturer. Boeing is based in Seattle and they had a warehouse full of antiquated office supplies that were on sale cheap, so nearly all the warehouse and studio shelves, desks and chairs at K came from there. At some point, Calvin came back with a trove of tools, among them a giant rubber letter stamp thing. I will try to explain what this is: imagine one of those old date stamps with a row of 7 or so bands of rubber numbers and months that you'd turn to stamp out "Dec-09-08", now imagine a giant one with an entire rubber alphabet on each band in a row of 20! So, Calvin would diligently spell out DUB NARCOTIC and everything else on this thing and xerox it and we'd keep a jumble of these sheets in our flat files, and that's where the Dub Narcotic typeface came from. The downside to this was that for a time, everything had to be stamped and xeroxed, so I ended up spelling out all the titles and credits to a number of projects.

At some point, I can't remember when but it was after the BECK album, that K moved to a much larger space with a huge warehouse and a giant loft upstairs nearly a block long that became DUB NARCOTIC STUDIO but most often referred to as the Big Room. Calvin was always very generous and bands were able to practice and record there, I made large paintings there and it felt so wonderful to have such an epic space available to us, I think psychologically it made you feel as if you could see further out to your own possibilities. Calvin always made sure that K was integrated to function as part of the Olympia community and there were plenty of non K projects that got done with the use of all this workspace.

fogofideas:  What are you doing now?

Tae: You can just say that I live in Brooklyn and I'm an artist and illustrator/designer, and that you found me on Flickr and point to my Flickr page. I'm working on my website, I'll send it to you if it gets done before you print the zine.

http://taewonyu.tumblr.com/
http://www.taewonyu.com/



Postscript: Since posting this interview Jean Smith from Mecca Normal has contacted me and been very kind (about this interview) and supplied me with a couple of links that I'd like to share: 

The first is from Magnet where every Saturday an illo/text piece is run where Jean provides the words and David Lester (guitar in Mecca Normal) provides the artwork- this Saturday's piece is an invitation to Tae to be included in the The Black Dot Museum of Political Art (managed by Kill Rock Stars founder, Slim Moon), here

A Facebook page for The Black Dot Museum of Political Art is here

Thanks to Jean and thanks again to Tae