The picture above comes from a page on the Hackney Citizen website: http://www.hackneycitizen.co.uk/?p=3057 -apologies to the photographer, I wish I could give you credit... I will if anyone can point me in the right direction
Jimmy from The Bobby McGees in conversation from about February 2009
This interview was due to appear in my paper fanzine but that’s taking an age and I can’t afford to print it anytime soon and it’s already too many pages too long so… with regret… I’ve snipped this interview from there and put it here:
FogofIdeas: So, what were you doing before The Bobby Mcgees, Jimmy? I can't picture you going thru' the regular four blokes and guitars band thing- I've heard you were in bands previously though…
Jimmy: I'd never played a musical instrument until I got a bass for my 21st birthday...I'd always been a huge music fan and gig goer..lots of my friends were in bands and there was usually 3 stereos blasting out different music at the same time in my parents house...Almost straight away I joined a Joy Division/Manics inspired band from Bellshill, home of Teenage Fanclub, BMX Bandits etc and loved it..I was tone deaf (some say I was tone dumb!) and had no sense of rhythm at all...but I worked on it!
Moved to England a few years later and took my bass with me... In Coventry I played with a great wee Jon Spencer inspired band called Ignition, the guitarist went on to form Vermont, the most under rated band in London in the late 90's... from there I moved to Leicester and played bass in an all girl punk band called Crave (don't ask...just let's say there are some pictures that were published in the Leicester Mercury that I hope I never see again!)...Then I met Prolapse and M.J. Hibbett and the rest is History...I formed a band called The Fabians, me telling rambling tales of daring do over 13 of the best musicians I knew...some legendary gigs, including the first one where 90% of the band had never been in the same room before... after our 2nd gig the Brilliant Dave Dixey at SORTED Records asked to put out a single. We got a lot of record co' interest, went to ABBEY Rd to cut the single and got a nice offer from GO! Beats, who were a label I liked...at the time I had a mentalist girlfriend whom I was scared to leave alone and I chickened out of the whole thing...GO! went on to sign ARAB STRAP who were basically a carbon copy of The Fabians...oops, tha's the wrong way about... ARAB STRAP were actually my main influence...fucking loved them! In ‘98 I recorded a Scotland world cup song for FORTUNA POP with Mick Derrick from Prolapse... it got some ace reviews from NME & Melody Maker, was RECORD COLLECTORS record of the month and I believe was the first Fort' Pop vinyl to sell out...
FogofIdeas: I'm interested in knowing about the initial inception of The Bobby Mcgees- was there ever any sense of putting together a 'conventional' band? Did you have any strict ideas on what you weren't or was the way the band grew all organic and by chance (maan)?
Jimmy: As soon as I met Eleanor I knew we would have a brilliant band together. Spoke for 5min and something just clicked. Went straight home and booked us 3 gigs before we even had a tune. I knew EXACTLY what I wanted to do...to the letter, and was experienced enough to have an idea how to do it, Eleanor was young enough to still have dreams and trust and talented enough to turn my ideas into some sort of music! We met at a Libertines gig the night after afore mentioned girlfriend had started a fight at my best friends wedding up in Edinburgh...I just got on a train home and went straight out to this gig... I suppose I'm lucky I bumped into El' before I bumped into Pete Doherty! I liked the early Libertines stuff, but I just went to the gig to get out of the house. Live they were shite. El's boyfriend’s band were supporting. Anyway, I wrote some songs, El wrote some songs and we played the gigs. At the 2nd gig we played with LACH, the godfather of the New York Anti-folk scene, he liked us and gave us a copy of the 1st Anti-folk compilation CD and something just clicked in both of us... some great songs on that CD ...and for us it's always been SONGS over music, or maybe words over music... there was no chance of us ever doing anything conventionally, 99% of conventional bands are shite... we played anywhere and everywhere we could, constantly, just to get the live experience and the ability to work with the audience and learn to entertain... the make up was basically a "fuck you!" to some of the terrible bands we played with... me thinking "how can I irritate these idiots just a bit more?"... those that get it, get it, those that don't just go back to their Razorlight albums.
We've played near 500 gigs in 7 years....sometimes there's 3 of us with our double bassist Graeme, occasionally we have a drummer for bigger venues and quite often we have the world’s greatest recorder player, Becca with us...but still we enjoy just me and El' against the world.
FogofIdeas: The last time I saw you chaps (in Nottingham- the inaugural Nottingham Indiepop Alldayer) Becca stole the show with her standing on a chair and playing the recorder with her nostril and pretending to be a rabbit
Jimmy: Yeah...she was showing off 'cause her parents were there...her father is Professor M.J.S. Dyer who's trying pretty hard to cure cancer..and her mum is a bit of a hottie...anyway, I need to have a word with that girl about Sartorial Eloquence.
FogofIdeas: I hope you don't mind me asking this and don't go all shy but can you provide a wee pen portrait of Eleanor, why she's so skill and why should be (if she's not already) a hero to the world?
Jimmy: Eleanor is one of only 2 people in the world who understand what the philosopher Wittgenstein was on about, and that he didn't think that words were signs... took her a bit of time to understand that.. but one night on the train home from a gig, it clicked... she taught herself to play piano using Bach's Fugues & preludes, she has a great story about hearing her grandparents, classical buffs, standing outside listening to her play and her Grandfather saying "Remarkable that she should even attempt to play such music without a single lesson" to which her Granma replied "Yes, but she'll never be able to play it properly!"... Eleanor can get a tune out of any musical instrument (even a ukulele!) is about to start a Philosophy PHD, she got a first in her M.A. while being a Bobby McGee and setting up a dressmaking business that has sold dresses in London, Paris and Tokyo. She makes our stage wear, dresses for Bat For Lashes & has sold a few to Paul McCartney’s ex!... best of all, she can play the lead line to our song "Kill Yourself!" and sing at the same time!
Oh yeah, and apparently she's quite cute. Without her glasses however she loses her super powers and is quite blind!
FogofIdeas: Should you ever meet your heroes? Have you ever met any of yours? Do you have any?
Obviously there's Ghandi who said and did some amazing things and Muhammed Ali.
I'd also love to go back in time (in a Delorian obviously!) and meet Emily Brontë... I bet she'd be a mentalist in bed!! Musically Ivor Cutler and Jacques Brel... and I love Duglas from BMX Bandits, I might meet him this weekend!! But my biggest and most important influence musically is definitely M.J. Hibbett... I've known Mark for a Loooooong time and his work ethic, his ethos and his positive attitude are inspirational... and I love his songs too!
Did you know Mark had one of the very first 1,000,000 download songs...didn't make a penny from it! Doe's he sit about moping about it? Nope...he just gets on with it....
The Bobby McGees can now be seen in Dizzee Rascal videos and are international recording artistes of repute
The following is an interview from July this year that was meant to go in my fanzine which I was planning to put out then... regretfully that's taking an age to put together and is already running to 52 pages long and then Twee as Fuck announced they were going their separate ways so I figured put the interview on here NOW...
... for the uninitiated Twee as Fuck is/was a London based clubnight/fanzine/record label that burned bright (to incandescent) thru' 2007/2008/2009
The last ever Twee as Fuck night will take place on December 11th 2009
Prior to July this year there seemed to be a number of low rumblings and grumblings about Twee as Fuck amongst elements of the indiepop 'community'...
...and people were getting into a tizzy fit over the word 'Twee' and, for many, the activity of putting on indiepop gigs and clubnights was proving to be (as it has been, as it is, as it shall ever be) a tricksy, infuriating, sometimes thankless practice where for all the belief and hopes you might have that band 'x' coupled with band 'y' on a bill on Thursday night in 'z' town will be the popshow to end all popshows you still have to cope with widespread disinterest from 'music fans', a sniffy venue demanding a hundred quid for room hire, a PA that seems to spark and smoke more than it does amplify and two hungry, tired bands who just want to make something more than 15 quid each before doing a 200 mile drive through night to their beds (for example) but seemingly problems that never seemed to befall Twee as Fuck (or so the rumours would have it)...
...it was against that backdrop that this interview was conducted... please bear in mind I turned 40 in September and that was playing on my mind too... and I was interviewing these bright young things who seemed to be getting it so apparently spot on... doing all the things I meant to do when I was in my early 20's and only ever daydreamed about...
Twee as Fuck are (were):
Elaine currently writing her doctoral thesis, but is constantly distracted by other things. She loves fireworks, craft-based fun, secondhand clothes, the seventeenth century, Sister Corita Kent, making an effort and exploring.
Pavla a workaholic freelancer producing photography, art direction and film work for various publications. She’s obsessive over cats, dresses with pockets, the history of northern soul and Czech fairy tales.
Rory a tall scruffy man with bad eyesight. He plays records for Twee As Fuck and likes books, cats and seven-inch singles. Hats never seem to suit him. . .
Fog: Who are 'Twee as Fuck'?
Rory: We're an indiepop club that has also become a record label and a fanzine.
Pavla: At first there were two of us, Pavla and Elaine. Rory (Jude Georges) joined us soon after and recently we've also asked Anastasia to help out. A couple of our friends are also involved - Alice helps us run the door, etc. on the night and Laura Bell illustrates our flyers and posters. We're all friends variously through university/ going out/ shared obsession with all things twee :)
Elaine: As Pavla says, for a while it was just the two of us, but Rory was kind enough to come on board when we realized how much work it was going to be. I met Laura, who does our illustrations, when we both worked in a secondhand clothes shop in Notting Hill: we immediately bonded over liking a lot of the same music (good and bad) and sharing a passionate belief in D.I.Y. culture.
Fog: How did 'Twee as Fuck' first emerge?
Rory: Pavla fell in love with indiepop two summers ago and decided she wanted to start a club night. She asked Elaine, and later myself, to join her as we'd been fans of the music for years. I was on the Sinister List waaay back when and briefly helped run a night at the Poetry Cafe that had put on the likes of Harvey Williams and Hefner, and I was a big fan of places like Beat Hotel, How Does It Feel? and Spiral Scratch so it made perfect sense to me. In fact one of the main reasons that I was excited to be putting on a night at The Buffalo Bar was that was where Beat Hotel and How Does It Feel? had started.
Pavla: Elaine, Rory and I used to help out at a lovely little club called 'One For The Lovers', and when that ended we really wanted to start our own. At the same time, we all loved a lot of similar lo-fi indiepop music and I for one became a bit obsessed with tweepop songs and all the things surrounding it. I didn’t really know other nights we could go to listen and dance to this music (there are in fact lots of great ones like How Does It Feel that we found out about since then) and I thought the phrase 'Twee as Fuck" was perfect for a club, so it all started from there.
Elaine: Twee as Fuck started as a club night that played indie pop for everyone. It was meant to be a bit of fun, a bit cheeky- hence the name. We wanted to see if we could do a night that our friends would come to, dance at, maybe get a bit drunk. For the first six months or so, we worked incredibly hard: at one point, we’d all be out flyering seven nights a week. It was a steep learning curve- especially as we didn’t necessarily have everything we wanted to play at the beginning, mainly because Rory and I are notoriously bad at keeping hold of things…If I’m being honest, I’ve lost or given away more records than I’d care to remember!
My love of indie pop, post-punk and riot grrrl goes back to my early teens, when I was on the fringes of the C-96 fanzine revival in London. Although painfully shy, I managed to hear about bands like The Pastels, The Vaselines, Shop Assistants, Felt, The Monochrome Set, The Raincoats, The Slits, Huggy Bear, Kleenex, Comet Gain, Dolly Mixture, Bikini Kill, Girls at our Best!, Yummy Fur, Beat Happening...the list could go on and on. That said, I’m totally willing to admit that the music I enjoy listening to never has and never will be limited by genre. If something’s good, it’s good irrespective of how you choose to pigeonhole it.
Fog: Do you have a grand vision or indeed a business plan for the future?
Rory: I don't think any of us would even know what a business plan looks like! No, I think we've just been really lucky and worked very hard to get where we are now. There's never been a 'grand vision' about what we do other that we try to work with bands we really love.
Pavla : Haha, not at all - and we're all quite bemused as to where an idea that we might have a business plan may have come from! It's all very much a labour of love/ hobby for us and if we have a vision, it's to provide a club night/ fanzine/ records that a) we love and have fun doing and b) other people who like or are curious about that sort of music can enjoy. I guess we all care about working hard on promoting what we do and really hand-pick the bands we put on, so if it seems more organised than it is, it's because we all do put a lot of effort into Twee as Fuck.
Fog: When TaF first started- it has been alleged- they approached either an indiepop DJ or some record company/shop dude or a longterm all things indiepop blogger to request that they provide as much 'indiepop' music as they could so you'd have something to play at yourclubnight?? Now, I'm kind of quite admiring the cheek there- if it's true- because I find the whole notion of the DJ and record collectors and all that a bit insufferable and, y'know, I like a bit of hip hop- my collection is ok, there are gaps, but clearly if I was doing a hip hop night I'd want to ensure I had a huge pool of the classics and party favourites so my evening lasted longer than 2 hours maybe... regardless of that, is there any truth in that suggestion? I think the inference is that having to ask questions your 'longterm commitment' to indiepop, perhaps?
Rory: Pavla was a newcomer to the music, she's never made any attempt to hide that, and fell in love with it almost overnight. I think she may have been sent a few mp3s from the guys at Indiemp3 (that we didn't end up using anyway), so yes, to a certain extent that happened. It certainly wasn't a plea for 'as much indiepop as possible' and Pav didn't even end up DJing that night. We certainly had more than enough of our own music to play. But what did happen that I think may have had a detrimental effect on how some of the 'indiepop community' perceive us, was that we had some fairly major teething troubles on that first night. We'd burned most of our records on to CDR (so as not to damage them) and turned up only to discover that they distorted really badly through the Buffalo Bar's sound system and were basically unplayable. So we were forced to DJ mostly from 'proper' CDs that one of our guest DJs had brought. It wasn't really the stuff that we would have chosen to play ideally, and it was a bit of a shambles really, but it was our first night y'know? I think a few people made up there minds about us there and then, and maybe haven't been back since to hear what we really play. So that's where that perception may come from.
Pavla: I think what you’re referring to is indeed Tom from indie mp3 very kindly sending us mp3s that we sadly couldn’t even play. I’m not sure how that got made into a story about us “requesting as much indiepop as possible”, and in turn a question of our commitment! [I should make it clear this story wasn't told to me by Tom and neither was Tom mentioned in the story doing the rounds- FogofIdeas] To us, it was just friendliness and we’d like to be just as helpful if someone else was starting something new we liked. I guess what I would say to the question is first of all, both Rory and Elaine have been avid indiepop aficionados and collectors since they were very young and anyone who’d talk to them would realize that straight away. I knew absolutely nothing about indiepop until my flatmate and Rory played me some a little while before I started Twee as Fuck and fell in love with it – it was a “I’m so glad I finally found what I’ve been looking for!” kind of a moment – when I was a teenager, I came to England from a different culture and was mainly concerned with learning to speak English and somehow integrating into British society – I wish I had known about indiepop earlier, but it was very much beyond my radar and I don’t think I should have to make excuses for that to anyone. I think the notion that you have to somehow “earn” indiepop through long years of service to enjoy it is ridiculous – one aspect of indiepop that appealed to me was its attitude of openness, friendliness, anyone-can-do-it-if-they-like equality, and I believe anyone can enjoy any music they choose no matter how long it’s been since they had the pleasure of discovering it.
Fog: Geography and finance has meant I've never been to TaF, regrettably, but here are two common preconceptions or criticisms that I hear from time to time (please bear in mind I know a lot of people who do go along and fucking love what you're doing), one is that a significant section of the crowd are more interested in being seen at a TaF night than actually taking time (if it's one of your gigs) to appreciate the bands and will talk while bands are playing and the other is that this is a 'fashion' thing... the first one would piss me off as a member of an audience/band or if I was the promoter- has this ever happened as far as you're aware? the second is on the basis that 'rosettes, cupcakes and aprons' (as it was once described to me...) are annoying or somehow trendy (?)... I'm aware- as some people aren't or claim not to be- that going all the way back to the splash one club in Glasgow that spawned the Marychain, Primal Scream and The Pastels (and many more) and pretty much defined indiepop codes of style and conduct (if you like) back in the mid-eighties there's been an element of 'dressing up' and accessorizing (if you will)... in fact, let's not be daft, this sort of thing is synonymous with clubnights and the like since the sixties and probably earlier (the twenties)... it's justFUN, isn't it? a means of setting yourself apart... the opposite seems a bit 'real ale' drinker to me- everything stripped down to an evening spent flitting between a pint from the bar, a piss, standing in front of the band, stroking one's chin and clapping when the song finishes and then going home with a figurative sticker that says 'I have attended this gig'
Rory: I think you've kind of answered your own question there haven't you? The second half of it anyway. Yeah, sometimes people dress up when they come to our night. Other people don't. All are welcome. I don't know what to say other than that really. When we started there was probably nothing less 'cool' than 'rosettes, cupcakes and aprons' as you put it. We give away rosettes and/or cupcakes sometimes because we think it's fun, and we always like to give away something on the night as a small 'thank you' to the people that make it possible for us to continue doing this. We give away fanzines and compilation CDs too. Pav and Elaine like to dress up, always have, I'm a bit of a scruffy slob. Between us we're probably a fair cross-section of our audience.
The talking thing is an odd one. We usually have about 150 people in to watch the bands at The Buffalo Bar and, yes, sometimes a handful of people have a bit of a natter at the back, but that's true of every single gig I've ever been to in London. I work at the Buffalo Bar as a barman, and can tell you unequivocally that just as many people talk at, say, a Beat Hotel show than a Twee As Fuck one, whatever the perception might be. We've never, ever had a single band complain about the reaction they've had from a Twee As Fuck crowd, in fact, a large number have said that it's been their 'best gig ever' or said how energising and supportive the audience were. I genuinely think that some people have made up their minds about us a long time ago and are now looking for things to pick us up on. For example there was a forum post after an event we did at The Macbeth which said how disgusting it was that a couple of people were talking during a Pocketbooks set and how awful and embarrassing it must have been for the band. Ian from Pocketbooks replied saying that, on the contrary, he'd really enjoyed playing and the response from the crowd had been excellent. So there you go.
Pavla: I think what these two questions, and the criticisms that inspired them are implying is that Twee as Fuck is somehow about a trend or that there is some sort of sinister reason behind it, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The dressing up thing, cupcakes, rosettes – those are all just things we enjoy and always have. Elaine has been dressing “twee as fuck” and throwing tea parties for at least as long as I have known her, which is coming up to a decade; I’ve always been a sucker for child-like aesthetics and having fun, but equally we don’t judge people by the way they dress – if you like to dress up, then please do, if you don’t, by all means don’t feel you have to. I think this sentiment goes beyond clothes too – we really like to be inclusive – no matter who you are, how many records you own or what you wear, if you like the music we put on and the records we play and the fanzines etc we make, then please go ahead and enjoy it with us. All the things we give away at twee – cupcakes, rosettes, fanzines, t-shirts, compilations, we do partly because we think it’s lovely to give away presents to all the people who come to our nights and partly because we just like to make them. It’s certainly part of the night, but it’s in addition to the music and the club night, not some trend we’re making or following, and if you just want to come see the bands, then great, if you want to stay after and dance, and if you want to wear the rosettes and eat the cupcakes than even better.
The talking thing I’ve seen on anorak forum and don’t really know where it has come from – I have fond memories of very quiet gigs as well as noisy gigs at Twee. Out of all the times TasF was on, the only night I can think of where there was talking we wish there wasn’t was in November 2007, when the place was probably too packed for comfort and there were a few PR types who may have chattered, but honestly I don’t think it’s an issue at all in general, and the fact that it has become a standard TasF criticism on anorak is more a reflection of how removed from reality those criticisms are than anything. We’ve also seen some of those critics at Twee as Fuck nights plenty of times, seemingly enjoying themselves…like Elaine says later on, we’d be more than happy to talk to them about any of their concerns if only they asked us.
Elaine: As Pav and Rory have suggested, I’m a pretty serious collector of old clothes, and have been for over 15 years. I have also taught a bit of twentieth-century fashion history to university students, although my academic specialism is early modern festival culture (if anyone’s interested). I find it pretty funny to be labelled a fashionista: I like dressing up, making an effort. It’s a totally different thing. There’s definitely this preconception in certain circles that making an effort with yr appearance, especially if yr a young woman, means yr a superficial person. To be honest, I’ve dealt with, and overcome, far worse assumptions in my professional life!
The talking thing’s a bugger, but what can you do? In my experience of gig going, it happens everywhere, but perhaps it’s easier to pick up on at Twee when we book quietish bands. Then again, one of my standout memories of our night was the first time The Crisps played: the whole set was completely unamplified, no mics, nothing, and yet, you could have heard a pin drop, the audience was so quiet.
Fog: 'Twee', what does it mean to you? Has it become an albatross around your collective necks? Are you- humour me on this- a 21st century variant on the 1920's flappers? Is 'Twee' political?
Rory: Initially 'Twee As Fuck' was used by American indiepoppers to rile Hardcore fans back in the eighties. We liked the phrase and thought it was funny. We really didn't think about it much more than that. I guess I would be pretty peeved if I'd been in Bogshed or This Poison and had seen my music retrospectively labelled 'Twee', and we realised that it had been tossed around as an insult by the press when talking about Sarah Records et al, but then you have things like Tweenet using it as a badge of pride. For us it was always intended to be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I don't think the word 'Twee' is particularly political in and of itself, except perhaps in the way that Amelia Fletcher chose the name 'Heavenly' to say 'this is what we are, if you don't like it - tough!' I think I can categorically state that we are not, nor ever planned to be 'a 21st century variant on the 1920's flappers.' Which is not a sentence I'd ever envisaged having to type.
Pavla: I loved the phrase “Twee as Fuck” when I first heard it because it communicated a certain fun-loving defiance, like saying “I like music and things that are nice and sweet and not at all cool, and who are you tell me I can’t be proud of that?!” I only realized later it was actually a very controversial term. I wouldn’t say we’re political at all. What all this boils down to is that perhaps some people think there’s an agenda to Twee as Fuck, when the truth is a lot more prosaic than that – we just wanted to run a fun little club night, work hard on it and if people liked it and it’s successful enough so it allows us to put out records and make a fanzine too, then that’s wonderful.
Elaine: Of the three of us, I’m probably the least comfortable with the word ‘twee’. I prefer to think of what we’re doing as D.I.Y. or indie. I find some of the child-like or cute connotations of the word ‘twee’ a little uncomfortable. I’d rather think of what we do as an attempt to facilitate and maintain a mutually supportive network of people who care about music, and more specifically promoting music in a way that hasn’t been completely commodified or isn’t exclusive or prejudiced. When I first started to get into music in a serious way as a teenager, I was totally inspired by how successive generations of female musicians and label owners had made and distributed music in their own way in spite of the barriers in place. I’m not trying to suggest that we’re doing the same thing, but I do believe that how we choose to operate on a local level does have some serious implications. There’s a lot to be said for that old chestnut, ‘The personal is political’!
Also from Elaine:
Fog: Why do you think Twee as Fuck has been so successful when other promoters are finding it so hard?
Elaine: In the beginning, we didn’t really know what we were doing, so we worked extra hard to promote the night. We were terrified that no one would turn up, and for a while, it was like having a full-time job on top of my full-time job! It’s definitely been worth it though: we’ve met so many fantastic people and got to do all sorts of ridiculous things like go to New York, press a record by Comet Gain, organize the show in Glasgow…and I still can’t believe that we’re putting The Pastels on in September.
As to why we’ve been so successful, that’s a tricky one: I think it’s a combination of being in the right place at the right time and hard graft. I don’t mean that other promoters don’t work just as hard to get the music they love heard, but there’s definitely something about right now, culturally, that we’ve benefitted from. I don’t think it’s just a fashion thing either. I’d like to think that more and more people want to engage with music that isn’t marketed as a disposable commodity. I know that’s always mattered to me- that feeling that something’s been produced with real care and some kind of conscience.
Fog: What would you say to yr detractors?
Elaine: That the situation has got out of hand. Some of the rumours I’ve heard about Twee as Fuck are completely ridiculous. I find it particularly hilarious that anyone thinks we’re a bunch of callow hipsters, which couldn’t be further from the truth. There’s all this speculation about our nefarious intentions, as if we’re some kind of cartoon evil corporation, which would be instantly dispelled if people made more effort to talk to, rather than about, us.
Postscript (from this weekend, October 2009)
Fog: What's your most abiding personal memory (either favourite, funniest, most apposite) of Twee as Fuck?
Elaine: Buying records in Monorail and Stephen asking if we wanted to put on The Pastels' London show. That was pretty awesome.
Rory: So many. Getting a kiss on the cheek from Tracy Tracy was pretty special. A boyhood dream fulfilled.
Pavla: The Crystal Stilts earth-shattering set at Cake Shop in New York this June, with everyone, especially the band sweating and bobbing out of control. Then someone requested 'Shattered Shine' and Brad just said "fuck that song" before launching into another.
Fog: What next for each of you?
Rory: Alongside Anastasia from Twee As Fuck and Daniel Novakovic I'll be starting So Tough! So Cute! a new indiepop night that debuts in January at the Buffalo Bar.
Pavla: I'm afraid I've taken the boring route of focusing on some proper work within the third sector in London.
Elaine: I'm aiming to submit my doctoral thesis in August next year, so apart from teaching unwilling undergraduates, that's my life for the foreseeable future. When I actually have spare time again, I'd love to put on more shows and take advantage of some of the more interesting spaces in London, not necessarily traditional music venues.
Fog: If you could do it all again would you do anything differently?
Elaine: Try and enjoy it more- temperamentally I'm not very laid back, so less stress and more fun would have been good. I also wish I'd been able to go to the New York shows.
Rory: I'd probably drink a bit less and take more photographs.
Pavla: I'd probably learn about DJ decks before we started the club. And do a Twee as Fuck on the west coast of USA.
Fog: What advice would you give any aspiring/jaded indiepop club/gig promoter/fanzine writer (I'm hoping you'll say 'do it fun' but don't let me push you toward that)?
Pavla: Definitely have fun with it! There's no other way to do it. But, at the same time be prepared to put time and effort in to make it the best club/ gig/ zine ever - a true labour of love. There's lots of little things like sorting out the kit, doing the cloak room, checking spelling mistakes and making sure all the codes are right on a MySpace page that might not be as fun or grand as booking your favourite band to play, but are just as important.
Elaine: Only ever book bands and play music that all/one of you love. Try and be supportive of other promoters, musicians and djs, who share similar values, objectives and record collections. Always do the best job you can.
Rory: Just do it. Have fun, work hard, book bands you love. You'll have the best time.
Japan were probably the first 'alternative' band I felt myself compelled toward- this was before 'alternative' was a lifestyle choice or an apparently generic sound... Japan were most definitely 'other' in the early Eighties when, well, looking back everybody seemed to be a bit odd and eccentric... no mean feat
That Japan should seem so separate from the pack was perhaps down to their seemingly obstinate wilfulness to plough their own furrow and David Sylvian's quite lovely face and hair
It was the minimalist sounding single 'Ghosts' (surprisingly their biggest hit) that gripped my barely adolescent fevered imagination following their Top of the Pops appearance here:
Music for me prior to this point had been raids on my older brother and sister's record collections, specifically my brother's ELO, Pink Floyd and (early) Genesis albums and my sister's rather impressive collection of disco (Chic and Sister Sledge being particular favourites of mine... and 'Summer Madness' by Kool and the Gang)... mostly I liked wearing the big headphones with the volume slider on one of the cans and seeing how loud I could go without my head exploding (all the way up it turned out)... prior to this I apparently enjoyed playing Pinky and Perky records at 78rpm and as my sister likes to remind me dancing frenziedly as a toddler to 'Charlie Is My Darling' by pint sized comedian Charlie Drake, which for some reason we had on 45
Aged about ten I dug Madness as seemingly everyone (but Adam and the Ants fans) did- it was a rite of passage to master the nutty walk and know all the words to 'Baggy Trousers'
Both my brother and sister's record collection seem to suggest to me now a certain level of escape and a degree of exoticism (yes, ELO are exotic, or they seemed to sound that way in the late Seventies)... Madness by contrast were parochial- in the best possible way- but very much in the here and now, very much from round our way (they weren't but we weren't so far from Camden, we were more north of London than North London)... and lots of other music that young chaps were supposed to like at that time seemed to be too... as much as they might be absolutely life-affirming (The Specials) or earnest verging on bobbins (Dexys) the possibilities they suggested- so it seemed- weren't far beyond my own front door
And by the time I got to secondary school and everything seemed to burn with complicated feelings and drives- as daft as this might sound now- Madness, Two Tone, all of that suddenly seemed like kids music
I needed a new kind of kick
Japan seemed to be the best passing fancy to plant my sassy flag on (I failed to be aware of The Fall, The Cramps, Crass or any of that and perhaps I needed Japan to get me to those places)- I blame the older sister of a classmate, she was in the sixth form and looked the business (all spikey hair and panda eyes and an impressive ability to induce a faint in a young boy just by virtue of filling a school jumper impressively and immaculately) and she had Japan pictures all over her art folder
I seized on that detail
I wasn't good at sport and I wasn't funny or a hard nut and I failed at most other things that seemed to pass as impressive (including and especially schoolwork) but I could hold a paintbrush and when I drew things they didn't look too shonky
I decided I was going to be 'arty' and Japan were definitely that, probably the very epitome of the term 'art fag'
Of course, I remained what I was: a provincial kid, gangly, awkward, rather too broad, too tall and clumsy to pass as an elegant pale aesthete... my attempt at a wedge didn't quite pass muster (that fringe just would not flop into my eyes and Sun-In is no way to bleach your hair), I never really had acne as such but I was plagued by zits and my wardrobe was strictly limited to catalogue clothes and Mister Byrite... so I never emerged as some great Sylvianesque beauty (despite my best attempts at using my Mum's foundation), I was still too young to catch the eye of the sixth form girls but the music and the ideas behind Japan did serve to transform me just a little... even if it's only now that I can appreciate that
For one Japan tipped me off to the Velvets and Motown... their exquisite covers of 'All Tomorrow's Parties' and Smokey Robinson's 'I Second That Emotion' did that, the first making me aware of a seemingly obscure band little referred to in Smash Hits in the early Eighties (and yet now a band with a vicelike grip over many indie band's sound, look and attitude) and the second making me take notice of music that was almost as common on the radio as The Beatles but allowing me to appreciate it that much more... y'know Pop music could be a bit more than just songs on the radio, they could be affecting, sophisticated, lasting and perhaps improved upon when sung by a bloke from Beckenham wearing a bowtie and a yellow cardigan
And Japan sounded just so strange... from Mick Karn's mellifluous warm bass to Sylvian's mannered baritone voice, the intricate percussion, the burbling electronics... listening to them now as I am you can hear what Duran Duran swiped rather hamfistedly but you can also hear Japan's rather smarter artful nods back to Bowie and Roxy Music
I find them rather preposterous (perhaps more so with time), heck, I ran a mile from Japan after that first burst of enthusiasm in my early teens- they were a guilty chapter in my growing up, a guilty secret when I listened back to them in later years- something that reminded me of the jarring awkwardness of my precocious early teenage years, something other people liked to remind me of
But they were a useful test then... they were ostensibly a pop band, of course, but they played around with the form, some of their songs were verging on the minimal and the abstract... some of it must've seemed just plain weird and resolutely unpop... but I persevered and I imagine it's because of Japan that I was slightly more ready and primed to go and explore the margins of music than some of my peers... that's not like a boast, it's just something of a realisation... (Japan tested me in another way during those developmental years because to like them was to court accusations of being either a 'weirdo' or a 'poof'- like Danny Embling in the film 'Flirting' I came to an understanding that to play 'the dag' was to serve a useful social purpose, you made other people feel better about themselves... especially in an environment where we were all ostensibly the same... a handy punk lesson that)
For some, for many, music is something you're served up: by switching on the radio, by clicking on the telly, by going in the supermarket... you enjoy what's in reach, what's accessible, you work within those parameters...
Not that Japan were underground or hard to find, I bought one tape in WH Smiths in Harlow and another in a branch of Boots the chemist... certainly Pop in the Eighties had more of a maverick spirit... something the 'retro Eighties' lot seem to overlook, their notion is that the Eighties were all surface and shoulder pads- a period of 'dressing up'- it would be easy to view Japan in this way
I'd make claims for Japan to be viewed as great art but I'm too chickenshit and fear ridicule but their music has something of an unyielding hold on me... it seems to resonate, I guess that's simply down to nostalgia
But nostalgia for what? Surely nostalgia is warm and fuzzy and I don't listen to Japan to remind me of the golden embers of some lost teenage summer but rather more to remind me of the possibilities they suggested away from the life I had then (possibilities that opened me up to notions of sexuality and gender stereotypes and miserablism and disaffection and stuff like that), of the sheer absurdity of their pop sense and of a world that never really existed for me and won't because I look like a builder now and I'm practically bald and most assuredly 40 but in an alternative universe I'm there, a perfect amalgamation of hair and features, all skinny hips and lithe limbs, elegantly and expertly creating video installations (and presumably being swooned over by girls with spikey hair and panda eyes) living an artisitic life of sure endeavour and purpose
Actually I prefer where I am now, Japan's a nice place to visit but I would want to live there (but I'm glad to have visited when I did, I think they sent me off to other places... I mean that's the reason I'm 'fessing up now, without Japan I'd have been where exactly?)
My name is A Fog Of Ideas and I was/am a Japan fan
